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Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:46 pm
by 6643
8452 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:51 pm
The pressure drop across the filter can starve the bearings.
I have never heard of this being an issue. Regardless, the oil pressure sensor is after the filter, so even if there is a problem, it won't go unnoticed.

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 am
by 8452
Let me try to explain. A healthy engine with strong oil pressure has adequate pressure even considering the pressure drop across the filter. Adding a filter to a fresh or strong engine is a great thing to do. If, however, the engine is at marginal oil pressure before adding the filter, the engine crank and bearings are probably worn which is causing the low oil pressure. Adding a filter at that time could lower the pressure below that point which would be adequate for feeding the bearings.

When I bought my 140, it was nearing TBO and the previous owner thinking he was doing a good thing, added an oil filter, but the oil pressure was marginal. I flew it several hundred hours since that time, but the oil pressure finally trailed off to the point that I am currently putting on a freshly overhauled engine. I am theorizing that with the old engine in that state, if it had kept the screen and not had the pressure drop of the filter added to the equation, it may still be making adequate oil pressure.

For my fresh engine I feel quite confident that the filter will serve it well. I hope to start the engine this evening and I will report the oil pressure on this thread in the next few days.

I only posted this so that someone with an engine in an advanced stage of its life could give it some thought before adding a filter.

I grew up in my Dads car shop and have a vey good understanding of engines and what oil pressure indicates. Over the years I have encountered many people who are actually quite engine savvy, but don’t understand oil pressure and the things that effect it. Many people think that low oil pressure can be cured by changing the shims in the relief valve or replacing the oil pump. In most cases, however, low oil pressure means worn bearings and/or worn crankshaft or camshaft journals and the only thing that can correct that is replacing bearings and or crankshaft/camshaft.

I am not trying to start an argument or debate. Just sharing my experience and thinking. You can believe it or not and there is no guarantee that I am correct. I can’t prove or disprove one way or the other.

Hope this is helpful in some way.

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:39 pm
by 5469
Hello Graham,

First of all, thanks to all members for their contributions.

I went this morning to the airfield and photographed our C150, that is in top overhaul process. So it was very easy !
I attach four pics of the filter from different positions. No curved pieces in the original C150 to O200 engine mount.
Hope this can help !

Sorry, system does not allow me to include 4 pics, I will place fourth in a separate answer.

Kind regards
Horacio

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:41 pm
by 5469
Fourth pic.

C150 engine mount with TAF L filter adapter.

Horacio

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 pm
by 8258
Thank you Horacio and Larry for your addition to the discussion, debate is always worthwhile.

I will make a template of the TAF-L, using a friend's C-85 C120 as reference, this weekend, and see whether it will indeed, fit, as member #6643's message in page 1 confirms it should fit with a crane with the curved section.

I certainly hope so.

I would welcome a picture of the unit fitted on an engine using the frame with the curved section.
Thanks
Graham

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:34 pm
by 5469
You are welcome, Graham,
Keep us posted, please.

Have a nice evening,
Horacio

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:51 pm
by 8258
I have spent the afternoon measuring and comparing between my 120 O-200 (engine mount with extra curved section) and a friend's 120 with C-85 (with no curved section) and there is NO WAY the TAF-L is able to fit, without some adaptaion !

I can think that a spacer between the engine and the face of the TAF-L mount and using thin nuts, to allow sufficient thread clearance, it could possibly allow it to clear the curved section, or replacing the mounting studs with longer ones (which I am not keen on doing !), but 'out of the box' it will definitely not work.

I would welcome any thoughts from those who have similar engine/engine mount ...

thanks
Graham

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:34 pm
by 5469
Hello Graham,

Just one more idea: the special engine mount in your plane, I suppose must have an STC owner that developed it.
Am I right ?
Perhaps that person has a key information about your case.
Our adapters are in the market since long time, he should be aware of the existence of our kind of adapters, unless the engine mount is too old.

Good luck !
Horacio

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
by 2066
Graham, as you're working through this don't fail to notice Randy Thompson's comment: "I don’t run filters". It's a horse that's been beat on quite a bit here over the years, but Randy has a LOT of experience with engines (and, flying behind them) that points to regular oil changes perhaps being so much more important to wear & longevity than adding a filter (...argument might be made that regular changes plus filter may be best...but, the hassle you're facing with the mount challenge may not be "worth" it?). Just a thought. Mac

Re: Tempest spin-on oil filter adapter

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:31 pm
by 6643
I believe the mount in question is the 140A mount, and not a third party mount.

The -L version of the filter adapter was developed for exactly the reason noted: to clear engine mount structure. (In fact, I think it is the only variant currently in production. Without the mount, engine and adapter in the same place at the same time, I guess we can't know for certain. I have an adapter in the hangar and I could make a template from it if that would help.

Also, don't overlook this post:
2356 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:26 pm
I have an 0-200 on my 140 with this oil filter adapter. My engine mount has the curved piece installed.
And this one:
8452 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:51 pm
I have this adapter and filter on the O200 A in my 140...
On the other hand, if it's a tight fit, don't forget that the engine, and the oil filter adapter, if installed, will move around a little whereas the mount won't move with it...

Randy and I will never agree on the filter issue, but we both agree that frequent oil changes are good for the life of the engine.