Slips with Flaps in the 140

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6183
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: Florida
Name: Mike Smith
Aircraft Type: 140A (2) 1949 & 1950
Occupation-Interests: Retired aerial power line patrol pilot for Gulf Power Co
120-140 Assoc. Florida Rep. N9633A & N9688A
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 6183 »

6863 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:35 am More important than the extra 2 inches of chord on the 140A is its fowler flaps as opposed to the simple hinged flaps on the straight 140. Fowler flaps are real flaps.
No Fowler Flaps on the 140A ole buddy. Same hinged type flaps are on that "A" model wing. Not enough tail surface to raise the nose I'm told if the airplane had been equipped with the Fowler type flaps. The earliest Cessna I saw Fowlers on was a 170B. I do like Fowler Flaps like to mentioned. Those 150 tailwheel conversions with them work fantastic, however, I think that 120 of your's is one of the nicest I've ever seen. Don't need any flaps with that one!

I always slip with the the flaps extended on my 140A.
8322
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:48 am
Location: Greenville, MI
Name: Raymond H
Aircraft Type: C-140
Occupation-Interests: Sales Manager of Michigan Merchant Services
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 8322 »

Well I'm on my way! I got two take offs and landing with minimal help from Jack. I think it settles onto the runway nicer and more natural than the 172... We used most of today just knocking the rust off of slow flight and slips and such being it had been 3 1/2 years since I flew. I was impressed with how good I did on holding speed and altitude but was surprised at how rusty I was on slips!

First Take Off I did very well I thought, was interesting to see how there is that moment where you have enough speed things are moving along but not much control authority and all the sudden you have control authority...

Only issue we had was one take off, we had a slight crosswind on take offs on the pavement I didn't add quite enough aileron into the wind and went to add more and couldn't for a second, I asked Jack to take the plane we aborted and then realized my elbow had jammed up on the window knob. I do not like the placement of that window latch knob at all.... Its just in a bad spot for me, wish it was further back...

But I'm pleased to say I now know this is something I can get, I definitely am not ready to be signed off- I'm not that arrogant, I'm just saying I was able to feel that this was a very conquerable skill to learn. Can't wait to get up again even worse now! lol
2066
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: North Carolina
Name: Mac Forbes
Aircraft Type: '46 Cessna 140
Occupation-Interests: Retired - Current 120-140 Assoc. NC Rep.
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 2066 »

6183 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:05 pm
6863 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:35 am More important than the extra 2 inches of chord on the 140A is its fowler flaps as opposed to the simple hinged flaps on the straight 140. Fowler flaps are real flaps.
No Fowler Flaps on the 140A ole buddy. Same hinged type flaps are on that "A" model wing. Not enough tail surface to raise the nose I'm told. The earliest Cessna I saw Fowlers on was a 170B. I do like Fowler Flaps like to mentioned. Those 150 tailwheel conversions with them work fantastic, however, I think that 120 of your's is one of the nicest I've ever seen. Don't need any flaps with that one!

I always slip with the the flaps extended on my 140A.
Mike is back! WELCOME BACK, MIKE -- YOU'VE BEEN MISSED HERE!! :D
8175
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Name: Larry Lowenkron
Aircraft Type: Cessna 140A
Occupation-Interests:
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 8175 »

Yeah, I was wondering about that comment that 140A's had Fowler Flaps, like why didn't mine! I was feeling so deprived! ;)
6863
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: EWK Newton, KS
Name: John Kliewer
Aircraft Type: C120
Occupation-Interests: Corporate PIlot - retired
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 6863 »

Ah thanks Mike for correcting me on the fowler flap issue, and welcome back!
John Kliewer

"Make things as simple as possible but no simpler." Albert Einstiein

"Wheels move the body. Wings move the soul."
6930
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: Illinois
Name: Mike
Aircraft Type: C140
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Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 6930 »

Hi,

I'm weighing in on this a bit late, but you will find that the 140 slips just fine with full flaps. In fact, I would contend that slipping (side or forward slips) with flaps in a 140 is something that you need to become comfortable and proficient at doing. This technique can be useful anytime, but it will really become your friend if you ever have an engine out situation and need to tuck into a short field.

As I'm sure you know, 140 flaps are not very effective all on their own. Landing long and/or fast and counting on the brakes is not a good technique anytime, and certainly not in our airplanes. The slip/flap technique is best way to maintain a higher glideslope to clear obstacles...or to correct for a too high approach angle - without building up speed. Slips are spin resistant and the 140 is happy to do them - with or without flaps.

Whether you use them for glideslope control or not...you will have to be able to land cross controlled with a strong crosswind. Same difference.

And, while we're on the subject, you can slip a 172 with flaps (30 deg or 40 deg versions) till the cows come home with no difficulty whatsoever. Sometimes (very rarely) you might get a slight tail pitching moment when slipping with flaps but it is an absolute non-event. The comment in the 172 POH is lawyer speak to protect Cessna in case someone freaks out because of the unexpected tail buffeting.

So practice it and get comfortable with it. You'll be glad you did. If you haven't already, take a CFI with you if are more comfortable.

Regards,

Mike
Mike Pastore, N2635N
Naper Aero, LL10
8322
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:48 am
Location: Greenville, MI
Name: Raymond H
Aircraft Type: C-140
Occupation-Interests: Sales Manager of Michigan Merchant Services
Contact:

Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 8322 »

6930 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:03 pm Hi,

I'm weighing in on this a bit late, but you will find that the 140 slips just fine with full flaps. In fact, I would contend that slipping (side or forward slips) with flaps in a 140 is something that you need to become comfortable and proficient at doing. This technique can be useful anytime, but it will really become your friend if you ever have an engine out situation and need to tuck into a short field.

As I'm sure you know, 140 flaps are not very effective all on their own. Landing long and/or fast and counting on the brakes is not a good technique anytime, and certainly not in our airplanes. The slip/flap technique is best way to maintain a higher glideslope to clear obstacles...or to correct for a too high approach angle - without building up speed. Slips are spin resistant and the 140 is happy to do them - with or without flaps.

Whether you use them for glideslope control or not...you will have to be able to land cross controlled with a strong crosswind. Same difference.

And, while we're on the subject, you can slip a 172 with flaps (30 deg or 40 deg versions) till the cows come home with no difficulty whatsoever. Sometimes (very rarely) you might get a slight tail pitching moment when slipping with flaps but it is an absolute non-event. The comment in the 172 POH is lawyer speak to protect Cessna in case someone freaks out because of the unexpected tail buffeting.

So practice it and get comfortable with it. You'll be glad you did. If you haven't already, take a CFI with you if are more comfortable.

Regards,

Mike
Thanks Mike thats all good info. Ive come a long way, though still need a good lesson or two, wont be bummed if its 3 or 4 as i dont want the sign off with the barebones just got itness... Im not an abnoxious thinks hes an ace cuz hes done it decent 15 times, but im happy with my progress. I do want to work more on slips into landing, but am happy now just getting the pavement landings down fairly decent enough that they dont look like a drunk at the wheel down the runway! Lol. Learning these very basics of TW piloting has been a real thrill, almost an honor in ways...im really enjoying learning her.

Also a neat turn of events my original TW instructor had to go get knee surgury so he set me up with the other local instructor. This guy is best instructor iv flown with thats alive. Id say hes equal to the gent that got me my ticket, Fred, God rest his soul. That is not a knock against my other instructors only a compliment to him, his teaching style is phenominal. Also we were chatting after flying and he told me the name of his original instructor and how be brings his teaching style to the cockpit today. Well that man, Jerome Vandenberg, is a local aviation legend.who happens to be my best friends grandpa, and one of the ppl that planted the seed in me to be a pilot. I went for a color tour with him in his 310 as a kid. I was polite and let everone on board before me, not completly out of kindness.... while flying he let me take the controls, and seeing those engines out there and the yoke in my hand was one of several moments in life that hooked me.. He is a frail man saddly these days but a few years ago i got a chance to take him up in my club 172. He was right seat this time, and his great grandson was in the backseat for his very first flight, it was a real honor to be PIC with him next to me. Well its also neat to think his teaching taught and influenced my "teacher" and he was one of tne folks that planted the seed of aviation in me.
V529
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: Michigan
Name: Victor G
Aircraft Type: C-120
Occupation-Interests: Work on airplanes till the cows come home..........they're still out.
Contact:

Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by V529 »

Great story Ray!
6930
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am
Location: Illinois
Name: Mike
Aircraft Type: C140
Occupation-Interests:
Contact:

Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 6930 »

Hi Ray,

Great story. It’s always cool when you can bring the past and the present together in aviation. To me, that is one of the big reasons I bought my 140. :D

All the best,

Mike
Mike Pastore, N2635N
Naper Aero, LL10
8322
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:48 am
Location: Greenville, MI
Name: Raymond H
Aircraft Type: C-140
Occupation-Interests: Sales Manager of Michigan Merchant Services
Contact:

Re: Slips with Flaps in the 140

Post by 8322 »

6930 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:52 am Hi Ray,

Great story. It’s always cool when you can bring the past and the present together in aviation. To me, that is one of the big reasons I bought my 140. :D

All the best,

Mike
Absolutly! My grandpa was my hero and im his name sake and I think of my 59V being a shiny new girl in the days my Grandpa was fresh back from the war starting his family, it makes me love her a little extra, to feel a connection to her...

I put together her chain of ownership, i am her 23rd owner! She was a real hot potato in the 50s, same area not sure if guys training bought her got ticket and something bigger and sold her on or what. She was looped and nosed over in 72. Best i can tell so far she sat unairworthy for one owners 5 year ownership of her and the gent that got her flying again, sadly past away a year or so ago. I really wanted to talk to him, though im going to reach out to his widow. Im going to try to connect with everyone i can who owned her, or someone connected to them. I want to write a a retroactive diary for her the best I can..
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